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nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
I just spent a few mins doing some maths.

ecpm average over 4 years has been 21.xx
ecpm average over the last 6 weeks 33.xx and still climbing pretty fast.

EPC was .29 4 year average.
EPC now .42 6 week average and climbing...

It was fairly stable since the start (old existing sites) and all the metrics have improved over time very slowly. Three steps forwards and two steps back again and again. Both traffic and overall income. Now I dont change my sites much if at all and have never bought traffic.

I do have one new site that I am adding to that has started earning and getting some traffic but I ignored that with these figures.

Everywhere I look on many forums I see people complaining of the opposite. Is it just me? Or is it that those that are dropping are shouting loudly and the rest say nothing. Is it a site quality thing? Some of my sites are crap! And they earn less and less... Others (the main 3 or 4) are earning better and better. Its getting to the point where I am thinking of reducing my 15 sites down to about 7 quality ones only and concentrating on updating those and adding a little more info to these few. I have not updated anything for many years...
July 21, 2007 10:22PM
spanner
Posts:138
Full member
Member since: 2007-06-12
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Man thats depressing ........

Your ecpm is 10X mine, if I had yours I would be making a fortune....

I am happy when it gets into the 2.something
July 21, 2007 11:13PM
nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Thats average ecpm. Some sites are in the hundreds. Some are about as bad as yours.

The thing is that as the high ones get higher the low ones get even lower.

The split no mater what causes it gets bigger and bigger.

If I only had one site (one of the lower ones) I would deduce adsense was screwed and getting worse.

If I only had a high paying site I would deduce that adsense was getting better.

Because I have a bunch of diverse sites it all kind of averages out.

You did the arb filtering thing right? Recently I emptied the filter for a week. It cost me about 25 percent of my normal income. I copied and pasted the old list back in and it was back to normal next day.
July 22, 2007 01:25AM
spanner
Posts:138
Full member
Member since: 2007-06-12
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Yep been there, when it hit 5 ecpm I was over the moon.

It must be content type, I wish I could get mine anywhere near your level smiling smiley
July 22, 2007 01:51AM
nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Not only content type but more important is how tightly focussed your traffic is. EG if you send me 10x more traffic from your green widget site to my blue widget site NONE is likely to either click or convert if they do! Make each page focus very accurately on one or two words or phrases.

So dont go after green widgets, blue widgets, fat widgets on every page. ONLY have a page that accurately targets green widgets. Have another for other widget. You want the search result to come up only for the correct term. Dont cast the net wide!

Let the search engine as well as the adsense bot target every page extremely narrowly! More traffic isnt any good. The right traffic is. You then get the right traffic to see the right ads. That pays everyone well.
July 22, 2007 02:05AM
GegaBit
Posts:3311
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
fat widgets ARE blue widgets after a while, get your widgets straight!

I have channels that perform like yours and higher, and other channels that perform lower than spanner's.

>dont go after green widgets, blue widgets

Your site can include all widget types, the whole site does not have too be tightly focused, but each section needs to be well defined and get a lot of love and time to make it vertically authoritive.

or as nitrous says:
Quote:
ONLY have a page that accurately targets green widgets. Have another for other widget



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2007 09:31AM by GegaBit.
July 22, 2007 08:57AM
Pengi
Posts:3345
Senior member
Member since: 2006-12-17
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
I'm sure each niche and site style will have its own benchmarks for eCPM and EPC.

Before Google decided that their business model did not fit well with my sites ( smiling smiley )
my average eCMP was ~ $140 and my EPC was around $0.30 - OTOH my traffic was only around 4000 page views per day and 98% of it was purchased. (Purchased traffic will always convert much better than natural traffic, since your visitor have already clicked on an Ad to find you.

Back to Topic

nitrous, possibly the reason that your stats have improved whilst others' haven't is that you have always been so systematic and draconian with your use of the filter. You only allow a small subset of the advertisers that others see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2007 10:55AM by Pengi.
July 22, 2007 10:14AM
DamonHD
Posts:6158
Moderator
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
My eCPM fluctuates between about $1 and $2 across all ad networks. Of late, with AS, it's been nearer to $2 though the last couple of days were poor.

Rgds

Damon
July 22, 2007 10:33AM
nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Yes everyones ecpm will be different but what about over time like 4 years or whatever compared to the last month or so? Maybe the arb adwords/adsense crackdown and the advertisers new referal reports have improved the money that is coming into the content network. I know I am seing new advertisers on my better sites and that must mean more competition and bigger epc.

or it could just be the traffic quality is improving in the search results over time. EG one of my sites saw a huge shift in click through rate and ecpm recently. Because one word that perfectly describes what the site is about apeared at the no 1 spot. No more overall traffic as some other terms are gone when I search. But that is better traffic quality. About a third of my traffic arriver via this targeted word now.

Which is why narrowly focused pages count.
I am going to go through every page and target the one or two keywords that best describe what its about as it should in time bring better ecpm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2007 11:23AM by nitrous.
July 22, 2007 11:21AM
ElvisFan
Posts:308
Preferred member
Member since: 2007-01-10
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
I have several questions nitrous

1. How many pages per site?
2. What size ads and how many per page?
3. How do you target keywords eg meta-tags
and headings?
4. Do you use adlinks?
5. Where do place your ads?

thanks
July 22, 2007 02:14PM
nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
>1. How many pages per site?

5 to 30 (average about 15 normally) depending on how many I need to get my information across . Mostly massively unique one off stuff. About "how to build a widget or how a widget works.


>2. What size ads and how many per page?

Between 1 and 3 depending on the amount of content. All sizes from single small ad to a huge rectangle. In the content, outside of the content - down the right side, wherever they fit neatly and can be seen. 3 per page is not very many on a page 2 feet long full of text and photos...



3. How do you target keywords eg meta-tags
and headings?


Meta tags "may" help but I dont think so in todays world. I dont use H1 tags. I target using the title tag, the file names, the text on the page (mainly!) the links outgoing and the text on those links, as well as mouse overs and alt image tags and file names. And with a description of the page subject as the page title heading.

4. Do you use adlinks?

Only on one site (a new one with little traffic) and they seem to be a waste of time...

5. Where do place your ads?

All over! But mainly the hotspots. If you have mountains of real content the hotspot does not put people off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2007 06:58PM by nitrous.
July 22, 2007 02:40PM
Harold
Posts:2494
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
If I am understanding correctly, my site has too many fuzzy pages--information, but no single keyword as the focus (or keyword phrase). Certainly some pages/channels due much better than others, similar to nitrous' sites.

eCPM over the years HAD been pretty steady at around 20.xx, but recent changes on my site and in AdSense have halved it. As i've posted elsewhere, trying to figure out how to get back. Will take time I don't have now to work on my site.

EPC has been rising, and if it hadn't my earnings would have dropped earlier than they did--the real problem has been CTR, which is less than half what it used to be.

Food for thought. A lot of gristle to chew over....
July 23, 2007 10:17PM
nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Mmm gristle! Thats the bit I spit out...

Yes it pays to decide on what the "key" phrase or word(s) are on each page and make sure that the SE and Adsense can easily spot that so the punters and the ads line up exactly! Click>convert>more money!

Its no use having fuzzy se targeting (even if it brings double the traffic) and therefore fuzzy punters and badly targeted ads for your visitors.

In other words whats the page about? Sum it up in a single phrase or pair of words and make damned sure that everything relating to that page including the links to it say something similar! Tags, titles, headings, file names, image names and on page text and alt tags, etc. As well as adding a few extra instances of it in the text. But dont overdo it...

In my case I got a number 1 for an extremely targeted single keyword recently. That site isnt getting quite as much overall traffic as before the se update. But its sure targeted! Click through and amount paid per click has doubled. Now I must do this for every page I have!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2007 10:45PM by nitrous.
July 23, 2007 10:42PM
Pengi
Posts:3345
Senior member
Member since: 2006-12-17
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
I've also considered eCPM as too general to help in understanding a problem or working out how to improve. It's useful for high level comparisons, but little more.

In the days when I still had some stats ( sad smiley ) I separated the issues out into the constituent parts of: Traffic, Click Through Rate and Earnings Per Click.

These measures are largely independent and are driven by different issues. (Although a big change in traffic can be accompanied by a change in CTR because visitors from different sources will often behave very differently.

It sounds as though Harold has identified his current "issue" as being Click Through Rate. To me, this suggests one of three underlying causes:
1) Poorly targeted Ads, or
2) Visitors who are only interested in the content and are not interested in any of the Ads,
3) Ad blindness, visitors are just not seeing the ads.
July 24, 2007 09:59AM
Harold
Posts:2494
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Or a combination of all three, depending on the page....
July 24, 2007 01:28PM
nitrous
Posts:730
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
Or poorly targeted visitors which is either the search engines fault or the sites fault for not being "narrow" enough per page for the serch engine or adsense to target accurately?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2007 01:42PM by nitrous.
July 24, 2007 01:42PM
Pengi
Posts:3345
Senior member
Member since: 2006-12-17
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: epc and ecpm over 4 years.
"poorly targeted visitors" would be a cause of poor CTR, but any "fix" would mean less traffic - the CTR stats may improve, but, unless you are buying traffic, you woundn't make any more money (probably less).

I see the situation of "poorly targeted visitors" as "poorly targeted ads". It implies that my visitors (each of whom is very well targeted) have divers interests. Separate pages are needed to reflect each distinct interest. Each distinct page can than have Ads targeted at smaller subsets of visitors.
July 24, 2007 02:29PM

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