Author
Message
GegaBit
Posts:3311
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: AdWords invitation
Google just sent me a $50 free offer to join AdWords, given that I have no time to research it as I should, and my site has nothing I could define as a 'conversion', and I don't think I'll be spending any money there when the $50 runs out, you think I should go for it?
June 10, 2008 09:05PM
Troi
Posts:4431
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Debateable. You could use the $50 to send traffic to your site until it runs out - then stop advertising. However - be careful with doing this - as Adsense can take a dim view on "adwords" originating traffic if the bulk of the traffic leave your site via an adsense link. Only you know your traffic figures and whether this is or isn't likely to happen.

If you have a reasonable amount of organic traffic at present - and the $50 adwords spend wouldn't significantly "skew" your stats - then I would probably go for it - but would go in at a very low daily spend. Just my thoughts.
June 10, 2008 09:13PM
GegaBit
Posts:3311
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Thanks Troi,
Yeah I am very aware of the no ads on landing page taboo, I did a quick calculation for what the $50 can get me and it's 1,000 visitors @ 5 cents each, I have more than that in half an hour on my site, much more, so this traffic is less than a drop in the ocean.
June 10, 2008 09:30PM
Harold
Posts:2494
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
I got the same offer through my new webhost, and I am thinking of using it to funnel traffic to the page where I promote my book--which has no AdSense ads on it, but does have links to Amazon and other places where people can buy it. So there's a clear conversion goal.

So just to be clear, it's OK to use AdWords, even though I have AdSense on my site, so long as I'm not dropping the traffic onto a page with AdSense on it?

Any other tips--really basic ones, please!-- from those of you with experience with AdWords?
June 10, 2008 09:51PM
DamonHD
Posts:6158
Moderator
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
H, GB, on my main site I remove most ads automatically from any page where a user arrives from 'outside', including via AW, and that is one way to handle the issue for non-static sites IMHO. I don't what to even look like an MFA.

In any case I do find that I ultimately get back from AS later almost what I put in AW (with many days' lag typiclly which makes me think it's often traffic from returning visitors who remembered my site days after arriving via AW), so that $50 may last you longer than you think!

I'd take the $50 and use it in conjunction with their demographic targetting or whatever to try to find a new thread to your visitors and expand your readership.

Also, an AW a/c in good standing gives to access to Google Analytics, which may be valuable.

Rgds

Damon
June 10, 2008 10:22PM
Troi
Posts:4431
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Can I just clarify something here. I'm not aware that it is taboo to land on a page with adsense on it - although this isn't a practice that I pursued. I think the issue is more if all - or the bulk - of your traffic is arriving from adwords and leaving your site via an adsense link. This is the "business model" that adsense don't like.

I believe it is perfectly acceptable to land on a page relevant to the keyword you are bidding on - even if it has adsense on it. With your traffic figures GB I don't think you will have any problems at all.

Regarding advice on adwords. Try to keep the adgroups small and highly focused. Avoid going for adgroups with hundreds of keywords - try to limit the keywords to between 20 - 50 in each adgroup, making the advert highly relevant for that group of keywords.

Negative keywords are well worth using - so if you have any ambiguitous keywords - use a negative keyword to filter out unwanted traffic.

When writing your advert - making the first letter of each capital converts better - as you may have noticed, the bulk of people tend to do this. Try to make the advert have a call to action - ie Order Your Book Online......or some such thing.

Keyword insertion can and does massively increase CTR - but be very careful that it is still relevant to your site and landing page if you use it. Probably worthwhile setting up separate adgroups for when keyword insertion is going to work.

Just a couple of thoughts - although I'm sure there are hundreds. Good Luck - and let us know how it goes.
June 11, 2008 08:17AM
GegaBit
Posts:3311
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Thanks guys,
good advice indeed, never knew we have such talents here as I rarely come to this corner of P-W, Troi, you should be an AdWords account manager for advertisers on commission.
June 11, 2008 08:38AM
Pengi
Posts:3345
Senior member
Member since: 2006-12-17
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
I can second Troi on this - the problem with my business model was that nearly all my traffic arrived from AdWords, and I was clearly not "selling" anything apart from AdSense advertising.

GB with traffic such as yours, $50 of AdWords advertising would be a drop in the ocean - barely worth the effort in itself.

However, a big benefit to some maybe the insight provided to AdSense users by dipping a toe in the AdWords water.

Learning about using keywords in AdWords - especially on the content network - may help in optimising your site pages to attract better AdSense ads.
June 11, 2008 08:44AM
Troi
Posts:4431
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
I think it is well worth making the effort GB. As Pengi mentioned above - if nothing else - it will give you a greater understanding of how adsense works - and perhaps increase profits.

Also - you may find that the conversions are higher - therefore although you are buying traffic, this my be a far more profitable source of traffic. Also - never turn away free money from Google.....

My other bit of advice would be - if you've got the time - make some banner adverts in all sizes (these you will get from the adwords interface). I've found the conversion on image ads is significantly higher - and well worth making the effort. Conversely - I always found image ads displaying on my sites from an adsense perspective were not good earners. I can now understand why - having done them from the other side.

I've never understood why Adsense state that image ads pay more - as within Adwords this certainly doesn't seem to be the case. They don't force you to pay more for image ads v text ads. And bear in mind - when your image ad is showing - it is taking up the whole of an adblock on someones site.
June 11, 2008 09:31AM
GegaBit
Posts:3311
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Agree with Damon on the targeting potential.

Also agree with Pengi and Troi on the educational value, but I don't see it as an opportunity given the over booked mind share and summer vacation approaching and requiring extreme family time obligations like traveling and crap.

Just dawned on me that I can use it on my site2 (a directory) that serves ~ 1,500 daily visitors.

2 questions:
- Can you use Adwords to put ads that gets you direct advertisers? (I'm guessing no)
- Can you define a campaign where there is no conversion? (I sell nothing)

As for upping the value of my own AdSense via AdWords, I am a self reformed gambler, I totally stay away from temptations.
June 11, 2008 11:21AM
Troi
Posts:4431
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
The answer to the first question is yes - providing that the target has opted to receive targetted ads.

The answer to the second is also yes. You do not have to specify a conversion tactic.
June 11, 2008 12:48PM
Harold
Posts:2494
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Thanks, Troi, those tips are very helpful.

You said to LIMIT the keywords to 20-50 in each adgroup, but can you use fewer? I think I know the keywords I want to target, and there are only a few...
June 11, 2008 08:02PM
Pengi
Posts:3345
Senior member
Member since: 2006-12-17
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Quote:
2 questions:
- Can you use Adwords to put ads that gets you direct advertisers? (I'm guessing no)
- Can you define a campaign where there is no conversion? (I sell nothing)

1) I'm not aware of anything in the AdWords TOR that prevent you advertising for advertisers. There are restrictions on medicinal, "adult" and gambling ads.

2) An advertising campaign is just a set of ads with target locations and keywords - you don't need to be belling anything. However, if you don't have a "conversion" page (e.g. a checkout) you won't be able to use any on the Analytics return on investment features.

Regarding keywords: You only need 1, but you want to look into all the suggestions and variations on offer (there are tools in AdWords to help) - this is where you will learn how to improve your pages for AdSense returns.

You'll be amazed how many keywords (and phrases) your "single" keyword can turn into.
June 11, 2008 08:33PM
GegaBit
Posts:3311
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Hi Troi & Pengi,
Here's why I thought it implausible that Google would allow me to advertise my site's direct advertising packages on their network:

1- I'd be using Google's system to compete with it.
2- Imagine if you found on your site where you sell direct advertising yourself a banner taking your visitor to advertise on another site even if it was a different niche
June 11, 2008 09:55PM
Pengi
Posts:3345
Senior member
Member since: 2006-12-17
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
I recognised your reasoning, but I still don't recall such a restriction - but check for yourself as rumour has it that I'm not infallible (never trust to rumours smiling smiley )

If they had a problem, they could always resort tothe competetive ad filter!
June 11, 2008 09:58PM
Troi
Posts:4431
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Hi GB - if you want send me a PM and I'll pass on a telephone support number for adwords and you could ask them. They are always really helpful on the phone - and it may put your mind at rest. Always best to hear from the horses mouth. Obviously none of us know your actual site - so you may have reasonable concerns that aren't quite apparent to us.

Regarding the number of keywords per adgroup. You could just have one keyword - however, I find this an unlikely scenario. When speaking to adwords - and when they have optimised various adgroups for me in the past - they have always recommended around 20 - 50 keywords per adgroup.

When you create an adgroup - you can elect for it to show on the search network and/or the content network. (IE either you advert will show on the RH side listing - or within other bods sites via adsense adverts - or both). When they determine where to place your advert on the content network - ie the adsense ads - they look at the first 20 - 50 keywords and determine from these keywords collectively which sites will be best suited to display your advert. If you have over 50 keywords in an adgroup - they disregard any after the first 50.

So in order for the content network to work for you effectively - it is best to keep the adgroups to no more than 50 keywords.

Obviously the search network acts differently. But in essence smaller adgroups tend to work better. You are able to keep the advert relevant to the keywords you are selecting.

I agree with Pengi - in that I seriously doubt one keyword would be the most sensible way foreward.

You are also able to specify the keywords as broad, phrase or exact match. There are more details within adwords to explain how best to utitlise this feature.

For example. Say you had a book called Jaws that you were selling on your site. You might want to bid on :

Jaws
horror story books
jaws shark
shark attacks
books for sale

etc, etc. But you would probably want to have some negative keywords to filter out dental stuff - as totally irrelevant. You would probably want to filter out "childrens books" etc.

This perhaps isn't a very good example - but just demonstrates how one product can suddenly produce many keywords - and phrases in a short time. Throw in the negative keywords - and you soon have those 20 - 50 keywords in an adgroup.

I'm sure you probably know much of the above - but perhaps others may find it useful in some way.

Then moving on. You may then decide that there are some good sites on diving - sharks - horror stories etc that would be good to display your advert on. You can then use "placement targetting" to place your advert specifically on those sites (providing they accept placement targetting - ie have adsense on the site - and are opted in to accepting placement targetted). Now you are going to have another batch of adgroups. And so it goes on.

Adwords can be as simple or as complex as you want. There are numerous new tools available.

Hope some of the above is of use.
June 12, 2008 06:53AM
DamonHD
Posts:6158
Moderator
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
As to conversions when not selling something: I do it. In my case I usually record the moment at which I believe a user's browsing pattern has made them 'sticky'. In fact I'm pretty well the opposite of an MFA as I advertise to get users who'll never leave a la Hotel California!

I have my PPC campaigns set where possible to optimise for conversions and my PPA also to pay only on conversion. And I think it works well for me.

Rgds

Damon
June 12, 2008 10:21AM
Harold
Posts:2494
Senior member
Member since: 2006-11-30
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: AdWords invitation
Troi, that makes sense about the keywords, thanks. I'll have to think carefully about how I set up the campaign I want to do, especially with negative keywords.
June 12, 2008 04:14PM

Sorry, you do not have permission to post/reply in this forum.